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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
117
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Posted - 2013.09.26 21:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Re: High Sec Customs Offices
The announcement today that they will be replaced in Rubicon, with POCO's (Player Owned Custom's Offices) begs a question:
QUESTION: Will resource concentrations between High/Low/Null/W-Space be re-balanced as well?
REASONING:
At present High sec planets have virtually no value in comparison to Low/Null/W-Space counter parts. So to hear CCP Fozzie speak today on EVE TV about fights over valuable High Sec planets seems 'odd' - the only value for those that are heavily invested in Planetary Interface has been as a safe haven for High-Tech Commodities production since the implementation of POCO's in Low Sec on Temperate and Barren planets with a static taxation rate.
This seems insufficient to constitute presuming any High Sec planets to be 'valuable'.
Hence the promotion of the idea that there will be greater immersive game play based on competition for 'valuable planets' in High sec is disingenuous at the most, and a 'gaffe' in the least; unless there is a parallel and slight re-balancing of the resource concentrations to create high value planets in High Sec without dissolving the current hierarchy of PI Resource Concentrations being commensurate with greater risk - which absolutely should be maintained.
Moving the sliding scale of PI further to the right 'across the board' will help bring a reality to the statement of 'valuable' High Sec planets - of which currently there are none. |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
117
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:Re: High Sec Customs Offices
The announcement today that they will be replaced in Rubicon, with POCO's (Player Owned Custom's Offices) begs a question:
QUESTION: Will resource concentrations between High/Low/Null/W-Space be re-balanced as well?
REASONING:
At present High sec planets have virtually no value in comparison to Low/Null/W-Space counter parts. So to hear CCP Fozzie speak today on EVE TV about fights over valuable High Sec planets seems 'odd' - the only value for those that are heavily invested in Planetary Interface has been as a safe haven for High-Tech Commodities production since the implementation of POCO's in Low Sec on Temperate and Barren planets with a static taxation rate.
This seems insufficient to constitute presuming any High Sec planets to be 'valuable'.
Hence the promotion of the idea that there will be greater immersive game play based on competition for 'valuable planets' in High sec is disingenuous at the most, and a 'gaffe' in the least; unless there is a parallel and slight re-balancing of the resource concentrations to create high value planets in High Sec without dissolving the current hierarchy of PI Resource Concentrations being commensurate with greater risk - which absolutely should be maintained.
Moving the sliding scale of PI further to the right 'across the board' will help bring a reality to the statement of 'valuable' High Sec planets - of which currently there are none. You don't think there will be a value in securing factory planets in High Sec with 0 tax? It's not always the resources on the planet that make it valuable, but what you can build on the planet that makes it valuable.
Just to be clear - I am basing my statement/qustion purely on CCP Fozzie's words; wherein he was clearly referring to capsuleers 'using' the planets, and that the incentives on the POCO owners (CCP feels) is to offer lower tax rates to increase usage.
My words validate that there is value in P4 Commodity production in High Sec - but that is insufficient to justify a change like this for the reasons stated.
If CCP Fozzie says "valuable planets", and is clearly inferring more than just Temperate and Barren P4 Production, then I think the question is warranted. |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
118
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Mhax Arthie wrote:Balancing forever, that should be a much more proper expansion name than Rubicon. Even Odisey 1.1 had more features than this so called expansion. No new content, no new features, is all about rebalancing .. again and again. I was seriously hoping for player built gates, opening of Jove space or at least the damn door in the CQ,.. this is hilarious. I feel that CCP somehow abandoned EVE and now is focusing only on Dust or that valkirye stuff
And giving away the pocos in hi sec.. really?! So any null sec alliance can take them over for **** and giggles and halt any PI production in hi sec for noobs and eventualy crash the PI market. Came excited, left extremely disapointed :/ 0/10 anyone will be able to attack those highsec poco's .. without concord intervention the owner player/corp/alliance will be free to set taxation rates if you think the tax rates are too high .. LAUNCH YOUR **** DIRECTLY INTO SPACE and pay no tax, your not forced to use the orbiting POCO .... it's not rocket science
Except that anyone that actually does PI seriously generates too much production for the command center to launch. The launch timer is prohibitive and m3 is ridiculously prohibitive. Yes it works in a pinch, but only for P2/P3 Commodities and lower ... with P4 Commodities at 100m3/unit you would only be able to launch 3 units and then wait an exorbitant amount of time to try to launch more...
Sounds great, but in practice it's not that simple. |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
118
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:
anyone will be able to attack those highsec poco's .. without concord intervention
if you think the tax rates are too high .. LAUNCH YOUR **** DIRECTLY INTO SPACE and pay no tax, your not forced to use the orbiting POCO .... it's not rocket science
Please enlighten us on your magical ways of making P4's without the use of a POCO Also citation needed on Concord and POCO's, I understood that to be related to depots not POCOs.
I can confirm that statement from CCP Fozzie today on EVE TV @ 2000 UTC announcement for Rubicon.
He said very clearly and unambiguously that POCO's will NOT be protected by Concord (paraphrasing) |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
119
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mhax Arthie wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:...
At present High sec planets have virtually no value in comparison to Low/Null/W-Space counter parts. So to hear CCP Fozzie speak today on EVE TV about fights over valuable High Sec planets seems 'odd' - the only value for those that are heavily invested in Planetary Interface has been as a safe haven for High-Tech Commodities production since the implementation of POCO's in Low Sec on Temperate and Barren planets with a static taxation rate.
This seems insufficient to constitute presuming any High Sec planets to be 'valuable'.
Hence the promotion of the idea that there will be greater immersive game play based on competition for 'valuable planets' in High sec is disingenuous at the most, and a 'gaffe' in the least; unless there is a parallel and slight re-balancing of the resource concentrations to create high value planets in High Sec without dissolving the current hierarchy of PI Resource Concentrations being commensurate with greater risk - which absolutely should be maintained.
Moving the sliding scale of PI further to the right 'across the board' will help bring a reality to the statement of 'valuable' High Sec planets - of which currently there are none. Dude, PI is not only about extraction! You buy the raw material in Jita, then 1 jump later you build P2-3 stuff. And the raw material is cheap just because noobs extract them in hi sec and sell it for nothing in the trade hubs. If you know what are you doing, PI can be much more profitable in hi sec than in low or null. I bet that the next day after the new expansion release, all pocos around the major trade hubs will be taken over by the main null sec alliances and this could seriously impact the whole market, including ship productions.
Point taken - again though my statements are just the 'reasoning' behind the question. in my opinion the marginal value of purchasing P1/P2 and refining is not where the real profit is, but I'm more than happy to apologize for not taking that into account in my reasoning behind the question :)
None the less CCP Fozzie's statement was indicative of extraction, and it's highly dubious that his statements about POCO's can be taken any other way for those that watched it on twitch today. |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
119
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Karak Terrel wrote:Deviana Sevidon wrote:I regret having re-subscribed and this is my last account to go. Goodbye May I ask for your stuff if you leave and no longer use it? I will put it to good use <3
He'll tell you no, because it's a hollow threat that's been used since 2003; and because of the fact he'll resubscribe once a few expancsions come through and he can actually then see what CCP is doing (that he could not perceive in advance)
I want to see other things too: like WiS - which is LONG over due... but if you can't be patient then you shouldn't be playing EVE in the first place imo. |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
119
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:My main concerns about this POCO business is whether or not a wardec is needed to take them down. The cost of taking them would be to high should they indeed be claimed by a large bloc. I'm not that concerned about 0.0 powers moving in to claim these POCO's as they can't bring their caps obviously, and there are lots of small lowsec alliances owning POCO's in the space they live in. If that model can be extended to hisec: all power to that. The balancing factor is that it 0.0 usually has something better to do then save a couple of lowsec POCO's from local bandits, so why should hisec be any different?
Unless CCP adds 'charters' (like High Sec POS's) then no War Dec will be necessary - we'll have to see. What I heard was CCP will make it just like low sec - no CONCORD and only a suspect timer. |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
119
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Vald Tegor wrote:
More likely to be used in docking games just off the undock. Refitting mid-fight to get an edge or stash away the bling mods inside before they go down.
Nobody said anything about docking in them, just stash and refit so maybe you will be very vulnerable during refitting like everything disabled even under fire. Which would be funny for probing those structures and just wait under cloak for owner to warp in and spring this trap on himself :) You missed my point. Anchor it off the Jita 4-4 undock. Undock in a deadspace fit battleship. Do your station game thing. Can't break the guy's tank? Refit to neuts, kill his cap, put the guns back on. He's shooting a specific damage type? Swap a hardener. About to die anyway and can't dock? Store the deadspace mods in the depot to deny the drop. (you can already do this with an Orca alt mind you) Of course, you can still get bumped out of range.
Refitting during combat?? |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
120
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 23:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:Vald Tegor wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:
anyone will be able to attack those highsec poco's .. without concord intervention
if you think the tax rates are too high .. LAUNCH YOUR **** DIRECTLY INTO SPACE and pay no tax, your not forced to use the orbiting POCO .... it's not rocket science
Please enlighten us on your magical ways of making P4's without the use of a POCO Also citation needed on Concord and POCO's, I understood that to be related to depots not POCOs. I can confirm that statement from CCP Fozzie today on EVE TV @ 2000 UTC announcement for Rubicon. He said very clearly and unambiguously that POCO's will NOT be protected by Concord (paraphrasing) I'm also paraphrasing and understood "no concord involvement, at most you will get a suspect flag" to be specifically referring to the four new personal anchorable modules. Therefore, citation needed. Required wardec fees for POCO's would do interesting things as a gold sink and the fluctuating cost of that would have interesting impact on the balance of control. But without a required wardec it would be a constant state of "welp, can't do my PI today the POCO got randomly reinforced again".
Nothing wrong with asking for citation - it was an implicit reference that they are 'bringing' POCO's to high sec = i.e. the same mechanic that exists in low sec.
What many will miss is that this is the beginning of the end of Empire as we know it - it is clear to me, that excluding CONCORDs ever watchful eye, CCP will begin to allow capsuleers greater control over current empire space in the coming months and years.
The deconstruction of NPC everything has begun! |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
120
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 23:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Karak Terrel wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
He'll tell you no, because it's a hollow threat that's been used since 2003; and because of the fact he'll resubscribe once a few expancsions come through and he can actually then see what CCP is doing (that he could not perceive in advance)
I'm sure his thread is sincerer and he will gladly donate his wallet and assets to me to reinforce his statement.
Let me know if he puts his money where his mouth is...  |
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Kassasis Dakkstromri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
120
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 23:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Manifest wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:On high sec POCOs:
Having a null alliance take them all over and lock everyone out will bad for new players, and casual players. But thats what will happen if players can take over high sec POCOs. Unless there are in-game mechanics that prevent it.
For example, there could be a limit that, at least in high sec, a POCO must be available to all and the tax rate has an upper limit of about what the current tax rate is. But thats sort of against the sandbox of Eve, and also against the idea that we pod pilots are taking over. Where is this limit coming from? (CONCORD?)
Is there a way to protect new players doing PI while at the same time removing a limit on the sandbox? I propose that the limit on the number of POCOs orbiting a planet be removed. If you do not like the tax rate, or have no access, you can put up your own POCO. If the POCOs orbiting a planet exclude some groups of players, you could put one up without such limits and capture that market. Awww man, if an Alliance took over all high sec POCOs they would be amongst the most logistically impressive groups of people of all time and probably be able to publish their work in political, sociological and scientific journals for decades to come. Do you know how many POCOs are in high sec space? Anyways, part of POCOs is that if they stack their tax rate too high for use, I'd assume another nullec alliance would start getting into the business of owning all POCOs and offer more competitive and realistic taxes. You know, cartel style competition. Either which way, if and when players do something super crazy with Rubicon designs, we always have the option to patch. Good old Patchy McPatchersson, such a stalwart friend!
CCP Manifest - that is not very "emergent" of you...
Any chance to get a clarification on CCP's vision of High Sec POCO's vis a vis the current resource allocation on High Sec Planets compared to Low/Null/W-Space sec planets? It would be helpful for the purposes of feed back from the PI community if we had a better understanding of the "valuable planets" comment made by CCP Fozzie... |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 00:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Deviana Sevidon wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:Karak Terrel wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
He'll tell you no, because it's a hollow threat that's been used since 2003; and because of the fact he'll resubscribe once a few expancsions come through and he can actually then see what CCP is doing (that he could not perceive in advance)
I'm sure his thread is sincerer and he will gladly donate his wallet and assets to me to reinforce his statement. Let me know if he puts his money where his mouth is... You have obviously already put your foot into your own neckbeard mouth.
Thank you for noticing my neck beard... it is rather impressive isn't it?!
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